View Full Version : New Build help and suggestions.
Hey guys just wanted to show the build that i want to do and if you guys have any suggestions or advice please kindly comment them below. Thanks :p.
CPU: AMD Fx-6300
MOBO: ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0
CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i
RAM: G-Skill Ripjaws 8GB (1600mhz)
CASE: Corsair Carbide 200R/ Fractal Design R4*
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 (OC Edition)
PSU: Corsair CX 600M
HDD: WD 1TB Caviar Blue 7,200 RPM
SSD: Sandisk 128GB/ Samsung 840 120GB*
Optical Drive: Standard DVD Burner
OS: Windows 7
I'm hoping to play the next-gen games. Mostly Battlefield 4 and some Total War: Rome II but i'll be tasting other games as well. But i'll be mostly using this for League of Legends! :D I can hear you guys screaming "Don't waste this gaming machine for LoL, OH! for the love of God! Please don't!!"
But i still will! MWWUUUAHAHAAHAHAHA :cool:
Anyways please leave some comments. Thanks.
P.S: Anyone know that guy who gives deals? those he still do it?
Well I'm not going to be suggesting any changes for the budget that is as good a machine as your going to get and will play games without issue, the new ATI 9000 series cards aren't far off but maybe too long to reasonably expect you to wait. The SSD i would suggest is the Samsung 840 EVO it's a good performer and a good write speed increase over the 840, I would also go with the Corsair TX650 over a builder series I've just heard about too many issues with the Builder Series. As for "that guy who gives deals" search for dunc's deals his email address should come up somewhere the forum is just being too slow for me at the moment to search.
Cool! Thanks a million! Maybe I can wait for the new 9000 series 'cuz i'm not buying it yet so....
But can i ask which case I should go with? The Corsair or the fractal Design? Thanks.
Cases are personal choice really, I prefer the R4 because the door makes it look sleeker, and it has soundproofing. I would suggest either way to maybe get the H100i instead of the H80i you can get much slower spinning fans and get the same cooling results, I hate any sound coming out of my computer case so anything to reduce it is good (only thing I can hear with graphics card at 100% and CPU at 100% is coil whine from the graphics card).
Ok, i like the R4 as well.
TBH with you i have no freaking idea how to install that big of a radiator and how to install the fans so that it's pulling air out. That's why i went for the H80i and it's cheaper. But i'll see if the H100i doesn't break the bank. :P
The R4 comes with the holes perfectly positioned for a dual radiator in the top of the case, when you get the unit the fans will have an arrow on the side indicating the direction of the air flow have those arrows pointing towards the top of the case (and you can make it easier to fit the H100i by putting 2 normal fan screws in first to hold the fans in place while you attach the H100i into the other 2 fan holes), I find the H80 with both fans attached is just too wide and cleaning it is a lot harder because you have to remove one of the fans to do so (not that its a big problem for most people my computer is near a CNC milling machine so its a dusty environment).
..........my computer is near a CNC milling machine so its a dusty environment).
In your house ?????????
In my garage, not like its a big machine just enough to do plastics and wood it can do aluminium but not to a clean finish.
Okay so I chose not to overclock yet so I won't need the H100i. I'll pick it up later.
Thanks for your inputs and I want to ask one last thing, the Corsair TX650M, can i add another 7950 later on or is it too much for the PSU? Thanks.
650w should be able to handle it, it would be close to max load but most decent branded PSUs can handle wattages slightly over what they state.
Okay I know it's been a while but what if I subbed in the GTX 760 rather than the 7950? because i'm pretty sure the 3gb won't help me as I'm not using anymore than one monitor so...
Any feedback would be aprreciated. :)
I would stay away from the Corsair CX600 like the plague. It is, when one looks at the performance data, a mislabelled 500 Watt unit. Its energy efficiency peaks at just over 240 Watts.
The marketdroids rate the CX600 for continuous use - which it obviously isn't, being rated for full power at only 30 degrees Celsius.
You can ignore this warning of course and have the following result:
At 300 Watt output The CX600 will be drawing in 349 Watt of power. The AX760/AX860 for instance at 300 Watt output would only be drawing in 323 Watt. At 450 Watt output the CX600 would be drawing 535 Watts whereas the AX760/AX860 would only be drawing 478 Watt.
If we look at the cost of running a system powered by a CX600 compared to an AX760/AX860 you have the following:
Running the CX600 at 300 Watt for 120 hours a month (about four hours a day) for one year - Â£74.88
Running the AX760/AX860 at 300 Watt for 120 hours a month (about four hours a day) for one year - Â£69.30
Running the CX600 at 450 Watt for 120 hours a month (about four hours a day) for one year - Â£114.79
Running the AX760/AX860 at 450 Watt for 120 hours a month (about four hours a day) for one year - Â£102.56
These numbers are applicable to all 80+ Bronze PSU vs an 80+ Platinum one.
You will also have to factor in the cost of having to buy at least another CX600 in the time that an AX unit would be powering your system (the CX600 only has a two year warranty the AX760/AX860 has a seven year warranty). Now all of a sudden the "cheaper" CX600 is no longer looking so cheap.
The cost of two CX600 - Â£114.54 + Â£22.32 extra cost of running it at 300 Watt for four hours a day for four years = Â£136.86
The cost of one AX760 - Â£124.99
I would recommend the following Corsair PSUs for you in the following order:
1) Corsair 760W AX760 80PLUS Platinum High Performance PSU Â£124.99
2) Corsair 650W Gold Professional Series 80PLUS Gold Modular PSU HX650 Â£97.30
3) Corsair Memory TX750 V2 750W ATX Enthusiast Series Â£86.54
Wow, uhm, damn. I did not know that. Thank you very much! I have to look at PSU's differently now. :P
I took the liberty of working how much you had to spend with regard to your build and it came to Â£780.87.
The first thing that I noticed was that your concept is based on building the PC around the Sapphire HD 7950 graphics card. About a third of your budget goes into that. You posted that you realised this was probably a mistake and I agree with you.
Let's see what you could get as an alternative
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Â£269.98
MOBO: Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H S1150 Intel Z87 Â£145.35
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i Â£89.98
RAM: G-Skill Ripjaws 8GB (1600mhz) Â£64.35
CASE: CoolerMaster HAF XM Â£95.00
GPU: Sapphire Technology AMD Radeon 7770 HD 1100MHz 1GB PCI-Express 3.0 HDMI Vapor-X OC GHZ Edition Â£97.03
PSU: Corsair 760W AX760 80PLUS Platinum Â£124.99
SSD: Samsung 128GB 840 Pro Series Â£107.98
This would come to a total of Â£994.66.
Now you notice that I left the hard drive part empty, this is because the PC is a modular machine and you can initially install the OS and play a game on the 128 GB SSD until you have saved up enough money over a couple of months to buy a better HD than the 1TB WD Blue. OK you would have to have some discipline, you couldn't install all your games, but you would have enough room to keep you going. When you decide which hard drive you really want then you can uninstall the games from the SSD and reinstall them to the HD.
What you would however have is a kick-@ss gaming machine for only Â£200 more than you were going to pay originally. The Sapphire HD7770 will handle any game that you want to play.
You can compare the benchmark of the i7-4770k vs the FX-6300 here:
as you can see I have not just added cost to your build but also a hell of a lot of performance.
The CoolerMaster HAF XM is my case of choice at the moment. It has enough bays for expandability, you can work in it easily and you can place the H100i in the top with the fans blowing through it and out the top. You can have up to four 200mm fans which will not only supply high airflow to your case but also be next to silent. The best thing is that you can mount 2*200 mm fans to the top of the case and still mount the H100i blowing out of the case as well! The other thing about the HAF XM is that it has volume it gives the warm air given off by the components somewhere to go. Another Scenario with this case is that you could take the 200mm fan supplied at the top and put it on the side (extra cooling for the graphics card) and still have a lot of ventilation from the two 120mm fans of the H100i blowing air out of the top.
The H100i is a far better cooler than the H80i in my opinion and well worth the extra few quid.
I have had a very good experience with the "Patriot Memory 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz Viper 3 Black Mamba CL9" (Â£55.62) which are about Â£10 cheaper than the G-Skill RAM you chose (although the red of the G-Skill would go with the red of the UD4H motherboard).
The Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H motherboard is light years beyond the motherboard you originally had in mind. I personally bought the Z87X-UD5H because I wanted the twin Intel Gigabit Ethernet ports. The Intel Gigabit Ethernet port is also a lot better than the Realtek ones which are usually on motherboards and will improve network connection. It also has PCIe 3.0 slots whereas the motherboard you chose only supported PCIe 2.0.
And of course I am going to recommend the Corsair AX760 because it will supply the cleanest (with regard to ripple) power to all your components reliably for many years. It is just simply the best. I cannot recommend the Corsair AX760i because I don't quite trust them yet.
I think I have added a hell of a lot of value for just Â£200 more.
Let's see what 2o2o has to say with regard to my recommendation. :D Whatever he chooses to criticise I am sure that YOU will be the only winner of the argument.
Well I'm always going to criticise the Coolermaster case :p, as for the system it is a very good build but not really for the games he mentions in his first post Battlefield 3 was only getting around 27fps at 1920x1080 High (not ultra)on a 7770, Battlefield 4 will drop that FPS down to sub 20fps, Frostbyte 3 games are a bit more power hungry hence the reason AMD 9000 series GPU's coming out just before the first of the big Frostbyte 3 games. I would suggest if you were going down the Intel route the 4670k would be the better choice, I've seen too many people with a 3770k or 4770k that aren't coming close to needing the hyperthreaded cores (actually on a side note it's amazing how many people could be left perfectly happy with a single core P4 with an SSD and could never tell there was a difference) personally I wouldn't go with a Haswell at all 3% performance boost and Â£30 more expensive than you can buy Ivy Bridge just not worth the difference especially as Ivy Bridge overclocks better. I'll have a look at this again in the morning with fresher eyes and a more operational brain..
2o2o, I think it is a case of swings and roundabouts even given that there is not much in it with regard to the 3770k vs 4770k CPUs themselves I think the motherboards (Z77X vs Z87X) the newer motherboards are well ahead - especially the Gigabyte boards. The Z87X-UD4H is just miles better than the Z77X-UD4H.
Of course the 4770k uses a hell of a lot less energy just for normal stuff like browsing or using an office package. I do however contend that the extra 2 MB Cache and the hyperthreading is worth the extra money for the 4770k vs the 4670k.
And why not just say, "Leave out the graphics card for a couple of weeks"? He could do all the normal things - aside from gaming - because of the integrated GPU in the 4770k and save up to get a better graphics card later. I still haven't decided which graphics card I will be putting into my new 4770k build. I am just running it on the HD4600 integrated in the CPU.
Sadly you and I will have a deep and continuing personal rift with regard to the CoolerMaster HAF XM case. :D
But as in the other thread where we helped the person, I have put together a package that you can change and optimise.
Colour me gobsmacked. I just got delivery this morning of a Belkin Energy Usage Monitor. So I plugged my new 4770k rig into it. I booted up and whilst browsing with FireFox the system consumed all of 44 Watt from the socket - that's less than an old style lightbulb consumed. Taking the energy efficiency of my PSU into account it means that the system was running on 38.28 Watt. That's bare bones with only an SSD and 2*4GB of RAM.
Actually the system was probably running at well below that the efficiency curve drops off massively at lower wattages infact that 90% that they quote is only maintained in a window of about 10w usually right in the middle of the PSU's max wattage range. I havent forgotten this thread it's just been a mechanical thinking day rather than a electronics thinking day (2 garden strimmers decided to fail on the same day :/, gotta get garden cleared before rain comes back)
Hey guys, thank you so much for your inputs.
@Nec_V20, the build is ok but that really leaves little space for the peripherals that i was hoping to get. And maybe i can get a 60GB SSD and get the WD 1TB Caviar Black H.D.D? So i can just store the O.S in the SSD and my games in the HDD.
@2o2o Thanks for your inputs and being the first to reply to this thread, and maybe Nec_V20 is right. Since I'm spending all my money on this PC I probably won't be able to get BF4 anyway :P. And my brother is hoping to get the PS4 for Christmas *Le sigh*. I can then save my money to get the 9000 series cards and make a really awesome build! :D
Still, thanks guys and if you have any other inputs please don't hesitate to post them. :) Anyway it'll probably a little while 'till I get all the parts.
The thing is that you don't need to build a system all at once.
Get the stuff you can afford now, wait a bit and get the rest in a few weeks. You will end up thanking yourself for it for years to come.
I know that is not gratifying now; however you will be wanting to use your system for years to come and it isn't really a good feeling if, in six months or so time your CPU is not up to the task and you then look around to do another replacement where you would have effectively wasted your money on the CPU and even the motherboard.
A 4TB 5900 RPM hard drive will always be faster than a 1 TB 7900 RPM one simply because of the data density on the platters. That means the drive can read more information in because it does not have to change tracks.
As I said you can use the 128GB SSD to run the games off whilst you are saving up for the hard drive.
2o2o, I calculated the energy based on the rating of the AX860 at low power consumption where the PSU has a worse efficiency (it is still at 83% though at that low a wattage). I know what it is drawing in so I can calculate what the actual energy being used by the system is. After decades of the computers being little furnaces burning up my money when I am posting on a forum or checking up computer stuff, this is a really welcome change. The PSU kicks into 90% efficiency at around 100 Watt.
KK, thanks a million! That's what my dad said as well. :P
Anyway can i ask you, is there really a difference between the i7 4770K and the i5 4670K in terms of gaming? because i really won't use the PC for anything else.
P.S: Can you give me advice on a good OC for the CPU? And a safe one? Thanks.
Games are becoming better at using multiple threads, so even if there is not much difference now, there will be. So the 4770k is a bit of future proofing with regard to that. The reason for this is that game manufacturers have to react to the realities of the hardware. There is a limit to how high a CPU can be pushed with regard to overclocking so the game manufacturers are reacting by making their games able to use multithreading more effectively. The better the game can use multithreading the bigger the difference between the 4770k and the 4670k will get. For the 4770k you are paying a bit more so that you don't have to fork out a hell of a lot more to replace a 4670k in a years time because it can no longer keep up.
You will not need an overclock at present, with the 4770k at stock it will run any game. And because of the HyperThreading capability you would not need to overclock as games become more multithreaded. You can however tune the 4770k to a game that cannot use multithreading and this is how this works:
Go into the BIOS and turn off HyperThreading. For the following I am talking about the Gigabyte Z87X-UD4/5H BIOS I don't know if other BIOS's have the option. You can set it up so that it runs with one core being used to 4.3 GHz, two cores being used 4.1GHz, three cores being used 3,9 GHz and four cores being used 3.7 GHz. Now if you monitor the CPU speed you can see how many cores a game uses by how high the clock goes and adjust further overclocking without sending your temperatures through the roof. This is what I call smart overclocking as opposed to the bollock stupid approach of just whacking all the cores up to a single overclock value.
If you want to talk about safe overclocking then you HAVE to talk about the PSU. The higher you overclock the more sensitive the CPU becomes to quality of the electrical supply the more ripple generated by the PSU the less stable the overclock will be. This is not only true of your CPU but also your graphics card. Overclocking RAM doesn't get you much of anything in the way of performance gain. There is no point in being able to start Windows with an overclock and start the game with an overclock when the game crashes because your PSU cannot supply a clean voltage. The advantage of the new Gigabyte boards is that they have completely digital VRMs which will again supply a cleaner voltage to your CPU.
When you play a game you want to play it for hours on end without having to reboot the damn machine every 15 minutes or so. Am I correct? When you see those videos or reports of how high folks have managed to overclock only very few of them will be honest enough to tell you how long the system remained stable.
It's not however like I am thinking of dying any time soon (even though I am 54), so if you do get the system and you want some more specific advice on overclocking - or your system in general - then I will still be here.
When you see the games results from overclocking then it is not something you would notice if you were actually playing the game - there comes a point where there is no noticeable difference to you as the player whether you are getting 85fps or 105fps. Why put more wear and tear onto your CPU when you don't need to?
I also wrote another thread about how to get more performance out of a game that cannot use multithreading here:
Thank you so much. I was wondering if the deal that Dabs is having with the i7-4770K is good?
Asus Intel 4th Gen Gamer Bundle (Includes Z87-PRO, Core i7-4770K & 8GB Vengeance Pro Memory, €593.93), if it isn't then this would be my build:
CPU: Intel core i7-4770K
MOBO: Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H
CPU COOLER: Corsair h100i
RAM: G Skill Ripjaws X 8GB
GPU: Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 7850 (Going to upgrade when the new 9000 cards come out.)
PSU: Corsair AX760
DVD Drive: Liteon DVD Burner&Writer
SSD: Samsung 120GB 840 series
(HDD: Going to buy a WD 1TB Caviar Black when I save up enough money.)
Case: I Can't decide between the Fractal Design Define R4 and the CoolerMaster HAF XM. I like the look of the R4 and the sound deafening material but the HAF does come with more airflow,imo, since i'm going to take away the top fan and put the h100i at the top. And the HAF goes well with the red.
OS: Windows 7
Now since this is a GAMING PC, I feel that the peripherals are also important to the build. Do you have any suggestions on a monitor? (Has to be 1920X1080, 5ms response time, LED Backlit and below €150.)
Thank you for your inputs, and hopefully you're still active in these forums when i get my build done because i probably have many questions on how to get the best from my computer. :P
Gigabyte have really stepped up their game for the new Z87X-UD4H this time around and put in stuff that you would normally only find in really high end boards (£200 and above). The bundle price for ASUS is £479.98 as far as I can see and that is almost exactly what you would be paying for the UD4H, 4770k and the G Skill RAM (£479.68).
The ASUS board does have odds and ends like wireless and bluetooth, however they have not really done much to improve the quality of the board since the previous generation. And whereas in the previous generation one could have called it a draw between ASUS and Gigabyte, this time around Gigabyte has pulled well ahead of ASUS.
The Gigabyte board doesn't have the gimmick of wireless or bluetooth on board, however it does have a load of fan headers. The great thing about the Gigabyte UD4H is that there is a switch on the motherboard so that you can choose which BIOS (as opposed to the ASUS there are two of them) you want to boot into. This means that you can configure one BIOS for normal stuff and then configure the other BIOS for overclocking and literally switch between the two of them with a flick of a finger. In the two BIOS's themselves you can set up profiles as well.
My bottom line is that the Gigabyte gives you a lot more of what you do need and the ASUS board gives you extra stuff that you probably will never need. If you want WiFi then there are better cards out there than the onboard WiFi of the ASUS, and if you are doing online gaming then you don't EVER want your connection to your router running off WiFi - you always want it hard wired. If you want to compare an ASUS board to the quality of the components in the Gigabyte boards you have to go to the price point of the ASUS Z87-DELUXE at £263.98
I had the choice of which board to go for and I went for the Gigabyte board because they put the highest end chips in there for USB and for SATA and also the VRM. What this means is that you are getting for £147 what ASUS wants you to pay over £250 for.
With regard to the cases you can see a fair head to head here (reviews done by the same reviewer):
Fractal Design Define R4:
CoolerMaster HAF XM:
My view on the matter is that the Fractal design case has loads of foam to dampen sound that you just really won't have. It does however have 140mm fans which are notoriously loud unless you turn them down (in which case you don't have the airflow) and it will be a bit tight getting the H100i in there (although it is possible). You don't have much choice in how you mount the H100i though. You can only mount up to a 140mm fan in the side to give the graphics card some airflow which again will be loud. The other thing about the case is the fact that you may have to take the hard drive cage out to accomodate the 7850 - which means that you would be limited to three hard drives in the case.
The HAF XM doesn't have the foam, but to make up for that it has 200mm fans and you can mount up to four of them. The 200mm fans are silent! The fans on the Sapphire graphics card are really quiet as well (unless they turn all the way up), I have the Sapphire 7950 so I can attest to that. However if you take the 200mm fan out of the top and mount it in the side then you will get massive (silent) airflow to the graphics card and this will negate the need for the fans on the graphics card to spin up. The other thing is that the HAF XM is roomy and gives you a lot of area to work in. It also means that the air being pushed out by the graphics card fans has somewhere to go and it won't just build up. The other thing which cannot be underestimated is the fact that the HAF XM comes with tons of extra screws in different lengths.
So you do have the foam dampening in the R4 - which makes the case quieter - but this dampening will also insulate the case meaning that you have to turn the fans that are in it higher which will cause more noise. I'm not too happy about the amount of airflow in the case with regard to cooling the graphics card and other components such as the capacitors and the VRMs.
It's up to you, I know how I arrived at my choice.
With regard to the monitor I have really good experiences with Samsung and believe it or not I got a great deal from Argos with regard to the 27 inch monitor with 2ms response I now have (Samsung S27B550) which I got for £205. You can forget that now.
I am happy with my Samsung but I don't know enough about what DABS is offering to recommend one within a reasonable price range. So I am going to have to say that I don't know. From what I have seen however you can get better cheaper elsewhere.
Once again thank you! Okay, so now it all depends on my dad on how much he says I can spend but I think i'll be able to make the i7 build that I posted. And it's all thanks to you! :P
The thing is there is a difference between spending money and wasting money. With the i7-4770k and the Gigabyte motherboard you will be set for the next four years at least.
My main system is an i7-990x six core processor. Now that thing is still going to do me for the next three to four years (I built my i7-4770k out of curiosity) however the 4770k I have trounces it with regard to CPU performance. Even now an i7-990x would cost you about £900 just for the CPU alone! You can see the comparison here:
If you compare the 4770k with the top AMD processor FX-8350 it beats it while at the same time using a lot less electricity.
The "new" AMD processors (FX-9370 and FX-9590) are just basically factory overclocked FX-8350 CPUs and they chew up electricity and the i7-4770k beat them as well:
The price of the FX-9590 is £670.32. You have to remember though that the benchmarks are at stock speed and the FX-9590 has no more headroom for overclocking whereas the 4770k does.
To compare the cost of the FX-9590 to the 4770k running at four hours a day for a year under typical, not heaviest load, the prices would be:
1) FX-9590 £ 41.30
2) i7-4770k £15.69
And those prices would be very similar for the affordable FX-8350, meaning it would cost about three times as much to run as an i7-4770k.
So no matter which way you look at it, the 4770k is a worthwhile investment.
Another review of AMD vs. Intel can be found here (FX-8530 vs. 4770k) and it includes a look at the Gigabyte board of the same family I recommended to you:
BTW if you are wondering where the name "Nec_V20" comes from it is from the very first hardware upgrade I did for myself in 1983 and that was from a 4.77 MHz (yes megahertz) Intel 8088 to an amazing 8 MHz (I had to solder a new quartz oscillator onto my board as well) NEC V20 CPU. So I have been at this game for a few years now. :D
If you get the Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H board and you want to do overclocking then I have found a couple of templates for you that should work.
Important things before you overclock:
1) The very first thing you have to do is download the latest BIOS for your board from Gigabyte. Don't use the @BIOS utility to try to update the BIOS from Windows - it corrupted my BIOS. I can walk you through the procedure when the time comes - you can contact me on Skype under the name Nec_V20. Don't try any overclocking until you have installed the newest BIOS.
2) After you have built your system use it at stock (no overclocking whatsoever) for about three weeks. This will allow all the components to bed in. Believe it or not the most likely time for components to fail is in the first few days of use - after that they remain stable for years before failing.
3) Set the switches on the motherboard to "Single BIOS" and set the other switch to "Secondary BIOS" to experiment with overclocking.
4) Don't go crackers on the overclocking. Do it in small steps.
5) If you find that a game runs with no problems on the stock settings then don't use an overclock. It just puts unnecessary stress onto the system. If a game is running sluggish then switch to the overclocked BIOS to play the game and then switch it back again. Get used to that habit because there is no point in having the system overclocked when all you are doing is going on the Internet. Also the overclocked settings will use more electricity, so you are just wasting money.
6) I will have the replacement for my Corsair H100i in about a week or so, so I'll be the lab rat and see if the following works stably.
7) I found the following which will get you to 4.4 GHz safely - anything above that is a plus.
A 4.4/4.5/4.6GHz Template:
Obviously you should not go straight to 4.4, start off with 4.0 then run that for a few days to make sure it is stable then go up to 4.1 and do the same:
Profile #1 Basic Profile:
CPU VRIN Override LLC: Set to Extreme (this is to make sure VIN doesn’t droop)
CPU VRIN Override Voltage: 1.7-2.0v (reduce if temperatures too high is causing instability, increase if temperatures are fine and you are unstable)
Ring Voltage: 1.15 or 1.2v
CPU Multiplier: 44x-46x
C1E, C3, C6/C7, and EIST: All Disabled
Profile #2(trade VIN for vRing):
CPU VRIN Override LLC: Set to Extreme (this is to make sure VIN doesn’t droop)
CPU VRIN Override Voltage: 1.7-1.8v
Ring Voltage: 1.2-1.26v
CPU Multiplier: 44x-45x
C1E, C3, C6/C7, and EIST: All Disabled
I can't express my gratitude enough over the intermet. But let's just say my budget has been slashed, a big chunk actually. You know the recession and all and I only have around €500-700 for the computer. And that includes the monitor. So, yeah. If you have a €500-700 build in mind please post it. Although my dad said that when we have the money we can upgrade and stuff. I'm not complaining. So if I could ask for your help one more time please. Thank you so much. :)
Well I have a few things kicking around so let's take another look and see what we can do
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K £269.98
MOBO: Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H S1150 Intel Z87 £145.35
CASE: CoolerMaster HAF XM £95.00
PSU: Corsair 760W AX760 80PLUS Platinum £124.99
That would come to £635.32
I have a Crucial 64GB SSD, 4GB of Corsair XMS RAM, an XFX HD5770 graphic card and a 1.5 TB Seagate 7200 RPM hard drive that are kicking around my place doing nothing that you can have. So if your dad lives in the South of England he can pick them up, if not it doesn't cost all that much to send. You could use the stock cooler that comes with the CPU on the 4770k for now. That way you would only need to add on stuff as you can afford it and not buy something now just to chuck it away in a few months. I've even got a spare 200mm fan for the case.
The system would be throttled but not crippled as it would if you started making foul compromises in the core components (PSU, Motherboard, CPU and case). You'd have to make do with the monitor you have at the moment.
With that you could play games even if not at the highest resolution with all the AA etc.
You can ask your dad to get in contact with me on Skype under the name Nec_V20 because I don't think he'd be too happy with you talking to some strange guy on the Internet :D
Thank you so much! But we live in Ireland and the price for the parts are more than €700 and is nearer the €800. And I don't have a monitor. (I don't think a 32" TV is good to play PC games on. :P) If it was a little cheaper maybe but....we can't right now since my brother is going to college. But I just want to say thank you again for the time you spent helping me and thank you for y'know willingly send parts to some kid that you don't know. Maybe in a year or two I'll be back picking up parts to build an epic gaming rig. :)
As I said to you, it is now (or will be in October) thirty years since I did my own very first hardware upgrade myself. I got a lot of help from a couple of guys who showed me the ropes (and taught me to solder). Later on when I wanted to upgrade to an Intel 80286 it was horrendously expensive - I was a student at the time - but again people helped me out with stuff (motherboard, CPU, RAM).
So I don't forget my roots and when the opportunity arises, as in your case, I make the offer as a kind of repayment to the guys who helped me.
Back then there was no Internet, I was just lucky to meet and get to know a few great techies.
You could get by with the following. You will be able to play games and not just at the lowest settings.
CPU: AMD A10-6800k £112.99 http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-a10-6800k-4-4ghz-fm2-4mb-quad-core-black-edition-processor--richland-core--amd-radeon-hd-8670d-8PVQ.html?refs=4294942707&src=3
MOBO: Gigabyte F2A85XM-HD3 FM2 AMD A85 DDR3 mATX £56.52 http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyte-f2a85xm-hd3-fm2-amd-a85-ddr3-matx-8G7G.html?refs=486690000&src=3
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i £89.98
RAM: G.Skill 8GB (2 x 4GB) Ripjaws-X DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz CL9 £55.03
CASE: CoolerMaster HAF XM £95.00
Monitor: Samsung S24C550VL 23.6" LED 1920x1080 VGA/2xHDMI £187.41 http://www.dabs.com/products/samsung-s24c550vl-23-6--led-1920x1080-vga-2xhdmi--1-for-mhl--8P4D.html?refs=488750000-57040000-50429&src=3
GPU: Not necessary is on the CPU
PSU: Corsair 760W AX760 80PLUS Platinum £124.99 / Corsair 650W Enthusiast Series TX650 Modular Power Supply £77.98
HDD: My Seagate 1.5TB
SSD: My Crucial Real C300 64GB SSD
As I said, I can send you my 64GB SSD (for the operating system) and the 1.5 TB Seagate 7200 Hard drive.
This would come in total including a REALLY good monitor to £721.92
The lowest you could possibly go with regard to a PSU would be a:
Corsair 650W Enthusiast Series TX650 Modular Power Supply £77.98 http://www.dabs.com/products/corsair-650w-enthusiast-series-tx650-modular-power-supply-7LGK.html?src=3
The monitor I recommended has a 2ms response time which is what you want if you are playing games or watching a DVD film. I personally think it is the best of what is available within your budget. Yes there are cheaper monitors but I guarantee you will get to hate them within weeks if you buy one of them.
This would knock the total down to £674.91 for a complete system with monitor. With a DVD drive you would still be under £700
This is really as low as you can go and still have a usable system. You will be able to resell the CPU and Motherboard at some point in the future because they would be ideal for a Home Theatre PC.
It won't cost me much to send the SSD and the HD to you and I also have a couple of spare SATA cables and an HDMI cable. But again get your dad to contact me, don't you go giving out your details to anyone you don't personally know on the Internet.
That's actually not a bad build and I can probably run League with that just fine. But maybe I shouldn't buy the CPU cooler until I get a better build. (and save a few quid.) But instead get faster RAM since the APU will use the RAM as the memory since it's not dedicated graphics with VRAM. Like maybe the Kingston Hyper X Predator? (2400mhz) And is the anything wrong with the Corsair HX650? It's modular and is 80+ Gold. It's cheaper than the AX760 but it still a Gold PSU. And my dad has been reading the thread and he might talk to you soon. :P Thanks.
I wanted to get the price down to a point where your dad was not having an aneurysm :D
But seriously if you think about it, if you are looking at the HX650 then the price step to the AX760 is negligible really. I wanted to give you the "as low as you should consider" side of it. From the price/performance side of things the HX650 doesn't hack it against the AX760 as well as the TX650 would. I also didn't want to recommend something which would be in the Reliant Robin class, i.e. "Pro: Cheap, Con: How much is your life worth?" I wrote a post on this topic and you can look at it here:
With regard to the H100i, just sit back and consider for a moment. Don't just look at it as, "Oh it's got less performance than an i7-4770k so I can get by with a cheaper cooler". Look at the comparison between the 4770k and the A10-6800k:
The TDP of the 4770k is 84W and that of the A10-6800k is 100W, so the A10 is going to run hotter. It will also run hotter because it has to work at its top performance to keep up with the 4770k ticking over at 50% or so. You will also want to overclock the A10 to get more performance out of it. So getting a cheaper cooler to go with a cheaper CPU is not really a valid choice to make, even though that may seem intuitive at first glance. You are also going to put a lot more strain on the GPU portion of the processor (because at first you won't have a dedicated graphics card) and that needs to be cooled as well!
RAM speed is to a great extent a myth. You get next to no real overall system performance increase with RAM speed and in fact with the aggressive turbo on the A10 APU overclocking the CPU, and the board compatibility, you would have to castrate the 2400MHz RAM to a point where the performance will be as low or even lower than the 1600 MHz RAM to avoid stability issues like regular BSODs when playing games. So again you would be saving on the wrong end and splurging out on something which in reality will give you no benefit.
All this "RAM speed" and the suggested performance gain is marketdroid/salescritter BS for the most part. I wrote a post on that here:
Take a look at the following graph:
The graph is how much better than 1333 RAM the various others are with regard to games in synthetic RAM benchmarks. In the first result 1600 RAM is 7.5% better however 2400 RAM is only about 17.5% better. This does not however translate directly into the game performance itself! They are synthetic benchmarks of RAM performance. So seriously, do you really want to fork out all that much more dosh for a illusory "performance gain" of RAM over getting a better CPU cooler? Just because it says "2400" on the box doesn't mean that you will be able to overclock it to that on your system anyway. The boards for the A10 processor only support RAM up to 1866.
I did my own test with my RAM running at 1066 and then at 1600 with a RAM Disk and ran disk benchmarks on that RAM Disk and there wasn't all that much performance difference. Yes the 1600 was a bit faster but not by a lot.
With regard to monitors and Samsung. I still have my 15 inch (1024*768) LCD Samsung monitor which I bought in 1999 and it still works a treat. I bought an LG 23" monitor and it went haywire on me just after two years - when the warranty had run out of course.
Speaking of RAM Disks, Softperfect, who have a good RAM Disk software, have made the full version of their product "Softperfect RAM Disk" (http://http://www.softperfect.com/products/ramdisk/ available for free (it used to cost quite a lot).
So when you have your system then set aside one gigabyte (well actually it should be gibibyte) of RAM for a RAM Disk and set your virtual memory and your browser cache to run on it - performance wise it is worth it and it also saves wear and tear on the SSD.
This is the build for my new i7-4770k if you are interested:
Cooler Master HAF XB Cube Case Black £68.34
Corsair AX860 860W Modular Power Supply 80 Plus Platinum £126.16 (yes I got the AX860 for this price)
Intel Core i7 4770K 3.5 GHz 8MB LGA1150 £259.99
Gigabyte Z87X-UD5H S1150 Intel Z87 DDR3 ATX £188.64
Cooler Master MegaFlow 200mm LED Silent Fan - Blue £10.94
ModRight 200mm Clear Fan Filter Aluminium Mesh £7.65
Corsair H100i Hydro Series Extreme Performance CPU Cooler £89.94
3 * Noctua NF-F12 PWM Desktop PC Case Cooling Fan £50.22
2 * Noctua NF-R8 80mm PC CASE FAN (PWM Version) £25.98
3 * 120mm Mesh Aluminium Fan Filter - Black £ 7.80
Mesh Air Filter 80mm Color Black £2.86
3 * Gelid PCI Bracket with Removable Dust Filter, pack of 3 £11.97
12 pcs PC Case Fan Screws (Black) £1.59 (I had tons of silver ones but I wanted black)
COMPUTER PC DUST MESH NET GAUZE COVER AIR FILTER SHEET £7.99
50 Strong Neodymium Disc Magnets 6x3 mm N52 Grade £6.36 (for attaching the mesh net gauze to the openings in the side panels and back - I didn't want to use glue)
2 * Phobya 6-32 UNC x 35mm Cross Head Screw 4 Pack : Black Nickel £6.83
Running total £883.26
I like the build but i'm going to change the monitor to a BenQ. It's still 1920X1080 with 2ms and it's a lot cheaper. Also would there be a clearance issue with the MOBO and CPU Cooler?
P.S: The BenQ has a lot of really good reviews so.....
No clearance issues whatsoever with regard to the motherboard and the HAF XM.
I looked at some BenQ reviews and (I am assuming you will be getting the BenQ GL2450HM) they are positive. Personally I have never used one. As long as it is rated at 2ms it will be good for gaming.
Hmm a little issue I have with the AMD build above is that the processor is considerably slower than the original processor he was going for, the 6800k isn't in the same league as the FX-6300. I would say you should find some way of paying for a stand alone GPU to go with a 6300 it doen't take much of a GPU to beat the onboard graphics of the 6800k. I also still don't like the case :p but maybe the HAF modular cases that are about to come out I might get one of them as long as they don't use the yogurt pot plastic of the other HAF cases. I will put a list of stuff for my next build here when the Ivy Bridge E processors come out and submit it to Nec's criticism always good to see other peoples alternatives before making a final decision.
the problem is that his father couldn't afford the Intel solution. So the compromise was the A10 which will play the games - if not at super duper resolutions or framerates - and he would have something which he could sell on to upgrade to an Intel based system later on. The A10 has everything a Home Theatre PC needs. Let's face it, who will buy the FX-6300 and the mobo off him later on?
My reasons for the HAF XM case is simply because it offers high end features at an affordable price. If you don't like plastic then you can pretty much eliminate most cases. I took a look at the cases that were under discussion at the beginning of the thread and the Fractal Design R4 case struck me as flimsy - with loads of plastic. Also shoehorning an H100i into that is not fun. I also very much doubt the claims that it is a quiet case when one takes into account the fan options one has (yes it is next to silent as long as you don't want much in the way of ventilation). However I have built up my HAF XM and from a foot and a half away from my ear I cannot hear it - and that is with the ventilation fans installed.
At the end of the day it came down to price, and the FX-6300 option would have been outside the budget if it were to include a monitor.
Yes he would have to put up with the graphics performance of the A10 for a bit, but he could add on a good graphics card later (which he could then carry over to the system he will be upgrading to) when the budget for that is there.
Like you I am looking forward to a closer look at the HAF Stacker solution. At the moment all I am reading or seeing is marketdroid hype.
Uhmmm, can i ask what YOU would suggest? Not taking away anything from Nec_V20 (who has been incredibly helpful!) but I just want to see what other people might recommend. i'm really set for the A10 build 'cuz i just play League of Legends* as of right now but I will be playing the next gen games. :P
*League is so easy to play that my parent's 7-year old laptop can play it :P
Let's see how you could recycle the bits that you would have after you have upgraded your PC to an Intel 4770k and you want to get some money back. I take it you would be replacing the SSD and HD I would send you so those would be spare.
So your total cost to create a new Home Theatre PC / Office PC:
CPU: You already have that
CPU Cooler: You already have that. Just put on the one you got with the CPU itself. A Home Theatre PC / Office PC is not going to tax the APU so it is good enough
Graphics Card: Already in the CPU.
mobo: You already have that
SSD: You already have that
HD: You already have that
Case: Antec NSK-1380-UK Black MATX Cube 350W PSU £91.08
PSU: Included in the case
RAM: Bung in 4GB of RAM, good enough for a Home Theatre PC / Office PC £30
Blu-Ray player: LiteOn IHOS104 4x SATA Internal BD-ROM Drive £23.98
You could build up this machine and sell it for the money you would already have spent (and even make a bit of a profit), and you would not have wasted any money. It would also be useful as an office PC.
These are the components for the pc that I am planning on building. Can somebody just confirm that all the components are compatible and also whether the PSU is big enough. The calculator on the asus website seems to suggest it will be but I would like to be certain before I commit myself:
Asus DRW-24F1ST Internal DVDRW 24x OEM
Corsair 430W Builder Series CX 80+ Bronze ATX Power Supply
Crucial 4GB DDR3 CL10 @1.5V Ballistix Sport XT UDIMM 240pin (x4)
Gigabyte AMD Radeon 5570 HD 650MHz 2GB PCI-Express 2.1 x16 HDMI
Zalman Z11 Plus High Performance Mid Tower Case
Toshiba 2TB SATA 6GB/s 32MB 7200RPM 3.5" Hard Drive
Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 AM3+ AMD 970 DDR3 ATX
AMD FX6-6300 Black Edition Vishera Six Core AM3+ 3.5GHz 14MB 95W
Personally I would stay away from the Curcial Ballistix RAM because even Crucial admits to compatibility problems. You would be better off with the Patriot Memory PC1600 Cl9 http://www.dabs.com/products/patriot-memory-8gb--2-x-4gb--ddr3-1600mhz-viper-3-black-mamba-dimm-cl9-89V5.html?refs=50709&catid=15006&src=3
I have bought these and they have worked perfectly in both my AMD A8-5600k and my Intel i7-4770k systems.