2o2o, I calculated the energy based on the rating of the AX860 at low power consumption where the PSU has a worse efficiency (it is still at 83% though at that low a wattage). I know what it is drawing in so I can calculate what the actual energy being used by the system is. After decades of the computers being little furnaces burning up my money when I am posting on a forum or checking up computer stuff, this is a really welcome change. The PSU kicks into 90% efficiency at around 100 Watt.
- Rep Power
KK, thanks a million! That's what my dad said as well. :P
Anyway can i ask you, is there really a difference between the i7 4770K and the i5 4670K in terms of gaming? because i really won't use the PC for anything else.
P.S: Can you give me advice on a good OC for the CPU? And a safe one? Thanks.
Games are becoming better at using multiple threads, so even if there is not much difference now, there will be. So the 4770k is a bit of future proofing with regard to that. The reason for this is that game manufacturers have to react to the realities of the hardware. There is a limit to how high a CPU can be pushed with regard to overclocking so the game manufacturers are reacting by making their games able to use multithreading more effectively. The better the game can use multithreading the bigger the difference between the 4770k and the 4670k will get. For the 4770k you are paying a bit more so that you don't have to fork out a hell of a lot more to replace a 4670k in a years time because it can no longer keep up.
You will not need an overclock at present, with the 4770k at stock it will run any game. And because of the HyperThreading capability you would not need to overclock as games become more multithreaded. You can however tune the 4770k to a game that cannot use multithreading and this is how this works:
Go into the BIOS and turn off HyperThreading. For the following I am talking about the Gigabyte Z87X-UD4/5H BIOS I don't know if other BIOS's have the option. You can set it up so that it runs with one core being used to 4.3 GHz, two cores being used 4.1GHz, three cores being used 3,9 GHz and four cores being used 3.7 GHz. Now if you monitor the CPU speed you can see how many cores a game uses by how high the clock goes and adjust further overclocking without sending your temperatures through the roof. This is what I call smart overclocking as opposed to the bollock stupid approach of just whacking all the cores up to a single overclock value.
If you want to talk about safe overclocking then you HAVE to talk about the PSU. The higher you overclock the more sensitive the CPU becomes to quality of the electrical supply the more ripple generated by the PSU the less stable the overclock will be. This is not only true of your CPU but also your graphics card. Overclocking RAM doesn't get you much of anything in the way of performance gain. There is no point in being able to start Windows with an overclock and start the game with an overclock when the game crashes because your PSU cannot supply a clean voltage. The advantage of the new Gigabyte boards is that they have completely digital VRMs which will again supply a cleaner voltage to your CPU.
When you play a game you want to play it for hours on end without having to reboot the damn machine every 15 minutes or so. Am I correct? When you see those videos or reports of how high folks have managed to overclock only very few of them will be honest enough to tell you how long the system remained stable.
It's not however like I am thinking of dying any time soon (even though I am 54), so if you do get the system and you want some more specific advice on overclocking - or your system in general - then I will still be here.
When you see the games results from overclocking then it is not something you would notice if you were actually playing the game - there comes a point where there is no noticeable difference to you as the player whether you are getting 85fps or 105fps. Why put more wear and tear onto your CPU when you don't need to?
I also wrote another thread about how to get more performance out of a game that cannot use multithreading here:
- Rep Power
Thank you so much. I was wondering if the deal that Dabs is having with the i7-4770K is good?
Asus Intel 4th Gen Gamer Bundle (Includes Z87-PRO, Core i7-4770K & 8GB Vengeance Pro Memory, €593.93), if it isn't then this would be my build:
CPU: Intel core i7-4770K
MOBO: Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H
CPU COOLER: Corsair h100i
RAM: G Skill Ripjaws X 8GB
GPU: Sapphire AMD Radeon HD 7850 (Going to upgrade when the new 9000 cards come out.)
PSU: Corsair AX760
DVD Drive: Liteon DVD Burner&Writer
SSD: Samsung 120GB 840 series
(HDD: Going to buy a WD 1TB Caviar Black when I save up enough money.)
Case: I Can't decide between the Fractal Design Define R4 and the CoolerMaster HAF XM. I like the look of the R4 and the sound deafening material but the HAF does come with more airflow,imo, since i'm going to take away the top fan and put the h100i at the top. And the HAF goes well with the red.
OS: Windows 7
Now since this is a GAMING PC, I feel that the peripherals are also important to the build. Do you have any suggestions on a monitor? (Has to be 1920X1080, 5ms response time, LED Backlit and below €150.)
Thank you for your inputs, and hopefully you're still active in these forums when i get my build done because i probably have many questions on how to get the best from my computer. :P
Gigabyte have really stepped up their game for the new Z87X-UD4H this time around and put in stuff that you would normally only find in really high end boards (£200 and above). The bundle price for ASUS is £479.98 as far as I can see and that is almost exactly what you would be paying for the UD4H, 4770k and the G Skill RAM (£479.68).
The ASUS board does have odds and ends like wireless and bluetooth, however they have not really done much to improve the quality of the board since the previous generation. And whereas in the previous generation one could have called it a draw between ASUS and Gigabyte, this time around Gigabyte has pulled well ahead of ASUS.
The Gigabyte board doesn't have the gimmick of wireless or bluetooth on board, however it does have a load of fan headers. The great thing about the Gigabyte UD4H is that there is a switch on the motherboard so that you can choose which BIOS (as opposed to the ASUS there are two of them) you want to boot into. This means that you can configure one BIOS for normal stuff and then configure the other BIOS for overclocking and literally switch between the two of them with a flick of a finger. In the two BIOS's themselves you can set up profiles as well.
My bottom line is that the Gigabyte gives you a lot more of what you do need and the ASUS board gives you extra stuff that you probably will never need. If you want WiFi then there are better cards out there than the onboard WiFi of the ASUS, and if you are doing online gaming then you don't EVER want your connection to your router running off WiFi - you always want it hard wired. If you want to compare an ASUS board to the quality of the components in the Gigabyte boards you have to go to the price point of the ASUS Z87-DELUXE at £263.98
I had the choice of which board to go for and I went for the Gigabyte board because they put the highest end chips in there for USB and for SATA and also the VRM. What this means is that you are getting for £147 what ASUS wants you to pay over £250 for.
With regard to the cases you can see a fair head to head here (reviews done by the same reviewer):
Fractal Design Define R4:
CoolerMaster HAF XM:
My view on the matter is that the Fractal design case has loads of foam to dampen sound that you just really won't have. It does however have 140mm fans which are notoriously loud unless you turn them down (in which case you don't have the airflow) and it will be a bit tight getting the H100i in there (although it is possible). You don't have much choice in how you mount the H100i though. You can only mount up to a 140mm fan in the side to give the graphics card some airflow which again will be loud. The other thing about the case is the fact that you may have to take the hard drive cage out to accomodate the 7850 - which means that you would be limited to three hard drives in the case.
The HAF XM doesn't have the foam, but to make up for that it has 200mm fans and you can mount up to four of them. The 200mm fans are silent! The fans on the Sapphire graphics card are really quiet as well (unless they turn all the way up), I have the Sapphire 7950 so I can attest to that. However if you take the 200mm fan out of the top and mount it in the side then you will get massive (silent) airflow to the graphics card and this will negate the need for the fans on the graphics card to spin up. The other thing is that the HAF XM is roomy and gives you a lot of area to work in. It also means that the air being pushed out by the graphics card fans has somewhere to go and it won't just build up. The other thing which cannot be underestimated is the fact that the HAF XM comes with tons of extra screws in different lengths.
So you do have the foam dampening in the R4 - which makes the case quieter - but this dampening will also insulate the case meaning that you have to turn the fans that are in it higher which will cause more noise. I'm not too happy about the amount of airflow in the case with regard to cooling the graphics card and other components such as the capacitors and the VRMs.
It's up to you, I know how I arrived at my choice.
Last edited by Nec_V20; 31-08-13 at 23:34.
With regard to the monitor I have really good experiences with Samsung and believe it or not I got a great deal from Argos with regard to the 27 inch monitor with 2ms response I now have (Samsung S27B550) which I got for £205. You can forget that now.
I am happy with my Samsung but I don't know enough about what DABS is offering to recommend one within a reasonable price range. So I am going to have to say that I don't know. From what I have seen however you can get better cheaper elsewhere.
Last edited by Nec_V20; 01-09-13 at 19:34.
- Rep Power
Once again thank you! Okay, so now it all depends on my dad on how much he says I can spend but I think i'll be able to make the i7 build that I posted. And it's all thanks to you! :P
The thing is there is a difference between spending money and wasting money. With the i7-4770k and the Gigabyte motherboard you will be set for the next four years at least.
My main system is an i7-990x six core processor. Now that thing is still going to do me for the next three to four years (I built my i7-4770k out of curiosity) however the 4770k I have trounces it with regard to CPU performance. Even now an i7-990x would cost you about £900 just for the CPU alone! You can see the comparison here:
If you compare the 4770k with the top AMD processor FX-8350 it beats it while at the same time using a lot less electricity.
The "new" AMD processors (FX-9370 and FX-9590) are just basically factory overclocked FX-8350 CPUs and they chew up electricity and the i7-4770k beat them as well:
The price of the FX-9590 is £670.32. You have to remember though that the benchmarks are at stock speed and the FX-9590 has no more headroom for overclocking whereas the 4770k does.
To compare the cost of the FX-9590 to the 4770k running at four hours a day for a year under typical, not heaviest load, the prices would be:
1) FX-9590 £ 41.30
2) i7-4770k £15.69
And those prices would be very similar for the affordable FX-8350, meaning it would cost about three times as much to run as an i7-4770k.
So no matter which way you look at it, the 4770k is a worthwhile investment.
Another review of AMD vs. Intel can be found here (FX-8530 vs. 4770k) and it includes a look at the Gigabyte board of the same family I recommended to you:
BTW if you are wondering where the name "Nec_V20" comes from it is from the very first hardware upgrade I did for myself in 1983 and that was from a 4.77 MHz (yes megahertz) Intel 8088 to an amazing 8 MHz (I had to solder a new quartz oscillator onto my board as well) NEC V20 CPU. So I have been at this game for a few years now.
Last edited by Nec_V20; 01-09-13 at 15:10.
If you get the Gigabyte Z87X-UD4H board and you want to do overclocking then I have found a couple of templates for you that should work.
Important things before you overclock:
1) The very first thing you have to do is download the latest BIOS for your board from Gigabyte. Don't use the @BIOS utility to try to update the BIOS from Windows - it corrupted my BIOS. I can walk you through the procedure when the time comes - you can contact me on Skype under the name Nec_V20. Don't try any overclocking until you have installed the newest BIOS.
2) After you have built your system use it at stock (no overclocking whatsoever) for about three weeks. This will allow all the components to bed in. Believe it or not the most likely time for components to fail is in the first few days of use - after that they remain stable for years before failing.
3) Set the switches on the motherboard to "Single BIOS" and set the other switch to "Secondary BIOS" to experiment with overclocking.
4) Don't go crackers on the overclocking. Do it in small steps.
5) If you find that a game runs with no problems on the stock settings then don't use an overclock. It just puts unnecessary stress onto the system. If a game is running sluggish then switch to the overclocked BIOS to play the game and then switch it back again. Get used to that habit because there is no point in having the system overclocked when all you are doing is going on the Internet. Also the overclocked settings will use more electricity, so you are just wasting money.
6) I will have the replacement for my Corsair H100i in about a week or so, so I'll be the lab rat and see if the following works stably.
7) I found the following which will get you to 4.4 GHz safely - anything above that is a plus.
A 4.4/4.5/4.6GHz Template:
Obviously you should not go straight to 4.4, start off with 4.0 then run that for a few days to make sure it is stable then go up to 4.1 and do the same:
Profile #1 Basic Profile:
CPU VRIN Override LLC: Set to Extreme (this is to make sure VIN doesn’t droop)
CPU VRIN Override Voltage: 1.7-2.0v (reduce if temperatures too high is causing instability, increase if temperatures are fine and you are unstable)
Ring Voltage: 1.15 or 1.2v
CPU Multiplier: 44x-46x
C1E, C3, C6/C7, and EIST: All Disabled
Profile #2(trade VIN for vRing):
CPU VRIN Override LLC: Set to Extreme (this is to make sure VIN doesn’t droop)
CPU VRIN Override Voltage: 1.7-1.8v
Ring Voltage: 1.2-1.26v
CPU Multiplier: 44x-45x
C1E, C3, C6/C7, and EIST: All Disabled
Last edited by Nec_V20; 02-09-13 at 16:39.
- Rep Power
I can't express my gratitude enough over the intermet. But let's just say my budget has been slashed, a big chunk actually. You know the recession and all and I only have around €500-700 for the computer. And that includes the monitor. So, yeah. If you have a €500-700 build in mind please post it. Although my dad said that when we have the money we can upgrade and stuff. I'm not complaining. So if I could ask for your help one more time please. Thank you so much.